BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

unclecharlie95

We have some storm clouds forming over the ITW at the moment.

A BASE jumper has created an organisation called "The World BASE Jump Association" and is running a BASE course at a dropzone and after 2 weekends of training will take students to the ITW.

Here is the announcement on the Italian skydiving forum: http://www.paracadutismoitalia.net/...c.php?p=11992#p11992

The course program: (in Italian)
http://www.flygang.com/news/BASE_FG.htm

Where is the problem you ask?

Firstly and most importantly this will break the "self governing rules" that the early Italian jumpers established with the local authorities to make ITW legal (Marco Rossi, Beppe Hoffer, Tracy Walker and others).

An incident from a visible and commercial course that was obviously in contradiction of the self governing rules from conception could cause serious problems with the authorities. If we cannot govern ourselves they will do it for us.

It would be sensationalist to say it could close the site but in crude terms "we are crapping in our swimming pool".

The World BASE jump association claims to own, operate and jump at a school located at the ITW. Said school does not exist and the experience level of the 'instructor' is unknown (but probably less than 100 jumps) and has been seen jumping there very rarely (maybe once a year?)

Well why am I posting here instead of going to the source of the problem, in short I have already voiced my concerns and some of the locals intend on attending the course too.

The manager of the dropzone maintains that there will be "no course" only a free seminar for those who want to learn more about BASE and to observe live jumps. What is being advertised obviously contradicts this.

I hope for everyone that my fears are unfounded and that the storm passes.

I am interested in other peoples opinions on this situation.

BASEstore.it

flummi

Re: [unclecharlie95] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Hi James,

Even though I agree with your general line of reasoning, and especially with the word of caution on the instructor's experience - the "Becco dell'Aquila" does not seem to be identical to ITW.

I admit that from the pics it looks like an exit from ITW, but hey, maybe they just did not have any photo material of the "Becco dell'Aquila".

blue skies,
flummi

jerry81

Re: [flummi] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Actually, Becco dell'Aquila seems to be exactly the exit point at ITW.

Other than that, what's up with this:
http://www.gogo-base.com/cave.html ??
I guess this guy is Croatian- but did he jump into the cave with Felix as well? Why put a tandem photo over the cave, then? I thought I knew some Italian, but that page is just confusing...

Hope those storm clouds go away soon without much rain.

unclecharlie95

Re: [jerry81] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Jerry is right, the "becco dell'aquila" means "eagles beak", referring to exit point.

BASEstore.it

bor

Re: [unclecharlie95] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

I see only storm clouds over local egos

Oink

Re: [bor] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

bor wrote: I see only storm clouds over local egos
Man uve to be blind if u cant see the clouds could mass over the exit point if a first jumper (2days trained) goes in at ITW.

Should the game be quitted by authoritues (as Troll Wall) to let you open your eyes?!?

Be mature before wild.

unclecharlie95

Re: [bor] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Hi Bor,

my motivations for posting are:

1. I don't want someone to be injured or worse by following a course that has some serious issues from conception .

2. I live at ITW and want to continue jumping! (selfish i know).

Anyone can go up ITW and jump, the mountains are there for everyone, from all the world, to enjoy. But that doesn't mean doing it in a rush, unprepared or in a way that could damage the status of the object.

If this was happening at a Slovenian site near your house maybe you'd understand better.

J

BASEstore.it

Kiki32

Re: [unclecharlie95] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Wow this is a whole bucket load full of retardation. I hope whoever is doing this realizes this.

StealthyB

Re: [unclecharlie95] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Your concern is justifiable, I too see the dark clouds on the horizon. Big wall sites are irreplaceable, they should be treated with respect and protected.Although not a legal site I lost access to the closest Big wall to me that I had been jumping succesfully and elusively for many years, because of the thoughtless and selfish behaviour of some overly eager, disrespectful, newbies. It's hard to get people that haven't experienced this kind of loss to look very far down the road. I appreciate your concern, it is not selfish to try and protect that kind of resource, if it were not for the efforts of Mikki and Moritz the Swiss valley could very well have been lost to jumpers.
Thank you for your vigilence, wishing you the best of luck, B.

bor

Re: [unclecharlie95] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Yes, if this was happening here I would not like it as I dont like that is happening at ITW. But thats just emotiontal reaction not rational.

Fact is that this guy can do whatever he wants! And in my opinion there is little or nothing wrong with his first jump course (given the fact that you dont know what his experience is). Maybe he is a good teacher.
I am sure that solid skydiver can be prepared for a safe jump from ITW in 2 weekends with listed program.

The whole situation as who is putting the legality of the site at risk depends on how you look at it. With all due respect but from my point of view, also you and some other locals are jumpin in a way that you can heart yourself an put the site at risk with accident. Just few days ago there was a post with video link where you jumped without helmet and a big suit without leg pouch. Somebody else is doing multiple aerials, jumps without tracking equipment, multiways, rodeo jumps. For me, all this is more dangerous than a beginner doing normal jump.

Take a look at fatality list for last few years. Almost all experienced jumpers.

Regards,
Bor

freeflysoul

Re: [bor] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

bor wrote: ... I am sure that solid skydiver can be prepared for a safe jump from ITW in 2 weekends with listed program.
... are you joking?

3,2,1,C-YA!!!
V.
BASE #1075 / BMI #I-002 / PFI #042 / EGI #104

kcollier

Re: [freeflysoul] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

freeflysoul wrote: bor wrote: ... I am sure that solid skydiver can be prepared for a safe jump from ITW in 2 weekends with listed program.
...
Maybe if said skydiver spent both weekends and the week in between with a mentor at a safe, forgiving object. MAYBE.

Also, remember the "rules" for ITW?

1. Be the holder of a sport skydiving licence and have done at least 300 skydives, of which at least 100 in the latest 12 months, if student. It must be considered “student” whoever jumper has not yet done at least 15 BASE jumps under the supervision of an acknowledged BASE jump instructor (*).

1559

maretus

Re: [kcollier] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

kcollier wrote: freeflysoul wrote: bor wrote: ... I am sure that solid skydiver can be prepared for a safe jump from ITW in 2 weekends with listed program.
...
Maybe if said skydiver spent both weekends and the week in between with a mentor at a safe, forgiving object. MAYBE.
Please everyone keep in mind as well the fact that every year there are several (more or less) solid skydivers prepared for a cliff jump in very popular southwestern bigwall in Norway with a course that spans over 1 day and as far as I know there haven't been any serious student accidents over last couple of years and this activity AFAIK is not endangering the legality of this site in any manner. Not to comment at all on the original course of this thread since I do not know the person and the contents of this course but why the model that works in Norway would not work in ITW? What makes ITW so much different that it would require "both weekends and the week in between with a mentor at a safe, forgiving object"?

Just as a disclaimer I have jumped both sites and am fully aware that the vertical drop in ITW might be shorter but it still is huge. Landing area in ITW (if you consider the main landing at the bar) is on my opinion way easier and bigger than the LZ in the Norwegian site referred above.

Markus
HSBC / SBA / FBA
www.basejump.fi / www.basejumper.ch

unclecharlie95

Re: [bor] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Sorry Bor but your motivation for posting, like your reasoning, is confused.

BASEstore.it

base283

Re: [unclecharlie95] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Hi unclecharlie95.
Take it up with a letter from the locals to the jumper and Ms. Eva Berasi or her replacement.
take care,
space

RickHarrison

Re: [unclecharlie95] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Students should not go off any terminal wall, unless they have enough skydiving experience. Newbies get in trouble at terminal.

Rick Harrison

freeflysoul

Re: [RickHarrison] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

What about their sponsorship?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs034.snc4/34073_132801836747702_100000536590051_259648_3096560_n.jpg

3,2,1,C-YA!!!
V.
BASE #1075 / BMI #I-002 / PFI #042 / EGI #104

paddyFrenchman

Re: [freeflysoul] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

freeflysoul wrote: What about their sponsorship?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs034.snc4/34073_132801836747702_100000536590051_259648_3096560_n.jpg
that's interesting. I wonder if jean-noël knows about this :)

W.B.J.A.GOGO-BASE

Re: [unclecharlie95] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

Dear James, I would not call myself a "maestro" and I'm not here to explain or justify myself to you, I just wanted to say that
slander and/or libel is a crime in Italy...
You know that it is not as you say, and certainly I must not be seen by anybody whom counts my jumps.
...if, in order to feel better or bigger, you feel the need to defame others... Then I am sorry for you!

paddyFrenchman

Re: [W.B.J.A.GOGO-BASE] BASE course at Italian dropzone > ITW at risk?

W.B.J.A.GOGO-BASE wrote: slander and/or libel is a crime in Italy...
wow is that all you got? you're willing to help people to die but you won't tolerate slander :)

I'm in awe! the fact that nobody showed up on monday proves that you're not what you pretend to be. Go back to skydiving and leave base jumping to the base jumpers... please...