Pilot chute size and heading performance

debaucherordrgz

Re: [blitzkrieg] Pilot chute size and heading performance

@ Blitzkrieg... good point
@ Vid666 that is a good list....lol... especially the part about the head up exit.

GreenMachine

Redheaded Step Child

especially the part about the head up exit

Out of my 176 BASE jumps there are
some where I do actually exit well.

And for low, go & throw jumps going
off head high works just fine for me.

Maybe I need to post some videos
that don't show me screwing up

Day BASE 1366
Night BASE 293

blitzkrieg

Re: [GreenMachine] Redheaded Step Child

GreenMachine wrote: Maybe I need to post some videos
that don't show me screwing up

but where's the fun in that?!

eUrNiCc

Re: [vid666] Pilot chute size and heading performance

Don't forget, probably the most common causes of offheadings is PC oscillation. Check your PC to be sure that it is attached symmetrically and that it was manufactured properly.
Using a PC that's too big for the job will also cause center cell stripping. There seems to be some disagreement over what role this plays in heading performance, but it's a factor to consider. If you're taking a healthy delay from 1500' you should be using a 36'' or 32'', especially with a 220 (lightweight) canopy.

Egad, a BASE life defiles a bad age.

kiwibaser

Re: [eUrNiCc] Pilot chute size and heading performance

eUrNiCc wrote: Using a PC that's too big for the job will also cause center cell stripping. There seems to be some disagreement over what role this plays in heading performance,
Well it might have or have not any role in heading performance, but it seems to me that center cell stripping may have more to do with the possibility of the primary stow getting undone prematurely with any consequence that might follow ....
premature slider descent (?)
line over (?)
tension knot (?)

(but hey wtf do I know.... with no slider up jumps yet )

either way an over-sized PC is not a very good idea
(unless you have multi? )

Greg

debaucherordrgz

Re: [kiwibaser] Pilot chute size and heading performance

Eh, personally I'm still undecided about the whole pc ocillation thing. Seems to me pilot chutes to wacky shit when you throw them out regardless. I figure the most important thing is that you have one in the first place.

mr_prick

Re: [vid666] Pilot chute size and heading performance

here we go again with the center cell strip thing...
if you pre strip the center cell properly how should a strong pulling pc do to much bad stuff? a high speed deployment is so chaotic in itself i highly doubt a pc can do that much harm.
i'm a firm believer in big pcs, i prefer a 46 for slider down stuff(yes, also stowed) and rarely use a pc smaller than 38". i own a 36 f111 but mostly don't bother to put it in.

tell me, in the attached pic is this center cell strip or what?
if so whats so bad about it? its a pull from full flight with a 38" vented zp.

i never got the whole center cell strip thing anyways...

PeteS

Re: [debaucherordrgz] Pilot chute size and heading performance

debaucherordrgz wrote: Eh, personally I'm still undecided about the whole pc ocillation thing. Seems to me pilot chutes to wacky shit when you throw them out regardless. I figure the most important thing is that you have one in the first place.
So, "Undecided, Pilot Chutes do wacky shit". Still don't buy the randomness part of deployment, or do you mean something else?

juanitos

Re: [eUrNiCc] Pilot chute size and heading performance

eUrNiCc wrote: Don't forget, probably the most common causes of offheadings is PC oscillation. Check your PC to be sure that it is attached symmetrically and that it was manufactured properly.
Using a PC that's too big for the job will also cause center cell stripping. There seems to be some disagreement over what role this plays in heading performance, but it's a factor to consider. If you're taking a healthy delay from 1500' you should be using a 36'' or 32'', especially with a 220 (lightweight) canopy.
So, a 32 "PC should be working well for more than 11 sec , tracking suit and 220 canopy..? I am asking because some people advice a bit larger PC if using tracking gear..

GreenMachine

Re: [juanitos] Reference & Preference

Just about every gear manufacturer and FJC instructor
has published a chart with opinions regarding the
recommended configuration, delay, PC, placement, etc.

So start with the one that matches your gear or your
training then modify as necessary. For example, if
the opening is brutally hard and makes you shit your
pants then maybe go with a smaller PC. OR if you
open way too low then pull higher or use bigger PC.

I have never done a BASE jump that lasted 11 seconds
but I have deployed a 220 after 11 seconds of tracking
and I am still alive to write persnickety posts

Day BASE 1366
Night BASE 293

wwarped

Re: [juanitos] Pilot chute size and heading performance

juanitos wrote: So, a 32 "PC should be working well for more than 11 sec , tracking suit and 220 canopy..? I am asking because some people advice a bit larger PC if using tracking gear..
since you apparently did NOT do the homework I suggested, I guess I'll do it for you...

one vendor of skydiving pc's sells 24" pcs for 150 sq ft canopies and less.
the same vendor advises a 28" pc for greater than 150 sq ft.
2 different BASE manufacturers list the smallest stock pc at 32"

thus the BASE pc's are already 36% bigger than skydiving pcs that appear to work fine. obviously, BASE jumpers like larger pc's to prevent hesitations at real low altitudes.

this becomes more critical when many wingsuit jumpers report deploying lower than expected because of the visuals differ and the burbles created by their wings.

BUT...
that is not what you asked. you are only discussing tracking pants!

as far as I can tell, you have 4 options...

1) test out various pc's on your skydiving rig and see how they work for you.

2) just take a stab at it and go jump a big wall. just pull higher than the basement. I doubt you'll have a significant hesitation, but what do I know? if it gives you a warm & fuzzy, go for it. (obviously, jump off a wall that does NOT require a wingsuit or tracking pants to ensure an appropriate safety margin.)

3) continue listening to anonymous voices on the internet and stress over which one is most accurate none of us really know your personal preferences, know your plans, know your gear, etc. how can any of us provide you accurate, customized advice?

4) quit BASE and increase your gear knowledge. educate yourself. return to the sport when you have purged much of your gear fear. do your own homework.

at this point, I'd suggest 4.
but as always, what do I know?
many say I don't even jump...

edited to ad:
ps
you could also go to that big wall with multiple pc's and watch a load or two. see what different people use, and how it works for them, before choosing for yourself.

if you are stressing over what size pc to buy for your first rig, ask your mentor/instructor!.

-free with 3-

vid666

Re: [juanitos] Pilot chute size and heading performance

juanitos wrote: [

So, a 32 "PC should be working well for more than 11 sec , tracking suit and 220 canopy..? I am asking because some people advice a bit larger PC if using tracking gear..
Since you are obviulsy too much of a pussy to find out the practical way, I will tell you.

Yes, a 32" works fine. I have used it for terminal and near terminal with canopies up to 300 sq ft (personal experience). I know of people to use a 32" for 6-7 sec delays as well.

YMMV

matt_f_001

Re: [eUrNiCc] Pilot chute size and heading performance

If your PC is assymmetrically attached or out of round, then this is an issue. What about all of those off-headings that are not due to improperly assembled gear?

Body position is where you are going to find it-- more than packing, or winds, or anything else (but at the same time I'm still recognizing that these are other factors in heading performance).

Whether it is slider-up or down, your stability and shoulder position during deployment, extraction, and inflation is going to have more of an effect on heading than anything up to that point. Spending hours on your packjob, waiting for absolutely perfect winds, etc, etc, doesn't mean anything if you can't control your body in freefall.

Your shoulders should be flat and parallel to the ground and as the canopy comes off your back, you should be able feel an equal pressure on both risers. If one shoulder is low or high, it is going to create unequal pressure on that riser before the canopy has even had a chance to open.

vid666

Re: [debaucherordrgz] Pilot chute size and heading performance

debaucherordrgz wrote: Eh, personally I'm still undecided about the whole pc ocillation thing. Seems to me pilot chutes to wacky shit when you throw them out regardless. I figure the most important thing is that you have one in the first place.
what's there to be undecided about ?

The PC is a half-sphere - it goes through the air creating pressure under the surface - that pressure (air) has to escape. If the PC built asymmetrically (which all are, perfect symmetry is just impossible) - the air is going to escape out the one side (edge) of the skirt, making the PC oscillate. However, as it's not freefalling, but rather being dragged past it's natural descent speed by the weight attached to it, the air starts spilling faster out the one side, thus forcing the pc to orbit around the bridle attachment point. Look at the BD video - lots of examples of that. Venting the PC at the apex will help somewhat, but is not a bulletproof solution.

I agree - having the PC, even a badly made one, that oscilates wildly, is better than not having one at all, and better than having a kick ass latest and greatest one that has a rubberband on it.

juanitos

Re: [wwarped] Pilot chute size and heading performance

Thanks a lot for all kind suggestions...
As concerning fear...I'll be back to Base in a while..Now I am still recovering and doing homework

P.S. nothing compares to tasting" the sweet kiss of the death"...no way to quit Base!!

base283

Re: [debaucherordrgz] Pilot chute size and heading performance

debaucherordrgz wrote: My track and delay are manly enough thank you. If I wanted to start a dick measuring contest that's what I would have named the thread. You are asking for advice. Think of the quips as a rainbow, Only an enhancement to the rain if you choose the color you like.

In reply to: As far as 180s go, I don't care for them regardless of altitude. I prefer on heading openings but thats just me. Goodluck, I dream about Danish.......

In reply to: @ Vid666- thanks that makes sense about the larger pc's desturbing the packjobs more at higher airspeeds
I disagree due to my experience in BASEing. Bigger is always better in an indecisive PC decision.
Bill Booth has a thread on dorkzone stating that between 30 & 50 fps separation is best. He may be the expert on this.
Centercell strip causing a less than optimal opening is a myth IMHO, You can use your search button to figure out this mystery also.

My tip to you would be to not get your panties in a wad when people are giving you answers on the very topic you posted and use the search function.
Take care, wish you a great outcome.
space

RayLosli

Re: [base283] Pilot chute size and heading performance

Hey don't forget one or two things to the the Big pilot-chute debate. Is the drag factor under canopy. & it really only applies more to the lighter weight people under the smaller Sq.Ft. . Big PC's will give a different stall to the flair & you landing technique you normaly have & also give a distortion of Canopy in it's Trim while @ the same time, it is giving greater drag as a sky-anchor when you are pulling it behind you While it slows your air-speed and changes your normal distance in glide-path you are accustomed too .
.

BASEMenace2

Re: [blitzkrieg] Pilot chute size and heading performance

hurumph hurumph, good shit, elliot

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