BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

K763

PRESS RELEASE!!!!

Apex BASE Perris, formerly Basic Research, Inc., announces the following advisement regarding Multiple Bridle Attachment stowage in any/all BASE specific containers:

It has come to our attention that the black rubber bands (Skybands by Ralph Ponce) may not be suitable for stowing the Multi Sheath within the container. The black bands are so strong and unbreakable that too deep of a bite on the Multi Sheath can cause a deployment hesitation, creating a pilot chute in tow malfunction.

From this point on Apex BASE (BR) strongly urges all jumpers with Multi to stop using the black bands in the tops of their containers, and instead use the small beige skydiving stows available through many skydiving shops. If you prefer, you can also cut the bands in half lengthwise, creating a "barely there" band.

The desired result of stowing the Multi Sheath in the top of the container is to help stage the deployment of the bridle, the Multi Lines and sheath, and the parachute. This stowage is in no manner meant to reef the parachute in any way. Firmly constricting the Sheath can and will lead to the p/c in tow malfunction.

Please mention this press release to any of your friends that have the Multiple Bridle Attachment option on their FOX or FLiK canopy.

Please call us at (951) 940-1324 or visit our website at www.basicresearch.com for more information.

KidWicked

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

My understanding is that Ralph hasn't been producing Skybands for the last couple of years. He told me he had concerns over the quality of the rubber.

If that's the case, then how were BR even getting the black bands to use?

TomAiello

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

I'm going to stick this to the top of the forum for a while.

K763

Re: [TomAiello] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

Thanks Tom. We appreciate that.

Karen

TomAiello

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

Karen,

Thanks for posting this, and for generally calling it to the attention of jumpers.

I know that you, personally, and BR/Apex generally are getting some flak over this right now.

I appreciate that you (both singular and plural) are willing to step up, admit that you can make mistakes, and try to set things right.

Much appreciated!

K763

Re: [KidWicked] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

We purchased ten pounds of bands from Ralph in Sept. 2003, and still have a few pounds left. I guess the longevity of these bands speaks for itself; which is why they are so good for the tailgate, but as we've seen, for the Multi purpose baaaaad juju....

K

I would make a joke about buying them on the black market, but I doubt that type of humor would be recognized right about now.....

pBASEtobe

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

In reply to: ...which is why they are so good for the tailgate, but as we've seen, for the Multi purpose baaaaad juju...
Does this mean you're saying it's ok to use the black rubberbands on the tailgate, just not on the multi?

People here on the forums say not to use them for anything and your press release doesn't really say much about the tailgate. Could you clarify that?

Thanks!

sitflybaseboy

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

Is it un acceptable to use these on tailgates as well? I am only using a double stow.

K763

Re: [sitflybaseboy] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

The black bands were originally sourced for the Tailgate. In fact, in our computer, the item is literally "black tailgate bands". I will continue to use them on the tailgate, and only use 2 wraps on the lower stuff. I believe Todd also agrees with this. I'll let you know if he thinks differently.

K

Han-Solo

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

In reply to: From this point on Apex BASE (BR) strongly urges all jumpers with Multi to stop using the black bands in the tops of their containers, and instead use the small beige skydiving stows available through many skydiving shops. If you prefer, you can also cut the bands in half lengthwise, creating a "barely there" band.
I'd say any band for the tailgate, NO band for the multi! Why would you wanna stage the deployment of the bridle at all?

Naptown

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

My 0.2 if there is this much discussion over these little black bands than why bother even having a discusion over them, DON'T use them.

Rauk

Re: [Naptown] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

bingo

KMonster

Re: [sitflybaseboy] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

Reguarding tailgates, the way I see it, these black rubber bands don't have any positive effects. Only the possibility of negitive ones. The only thing they do is increase the likelihood of a tailgate hangup. The tailgate rubberband is supposed to come off, so I use something I know will do what I want it to. Those beige rubber bands cut in half lengthwise are perfect.

In reply to what Karen said, In reply to: I guess the longevity of these bands speaks for itself; which is why they are so good for the tailgate I disagree. I think a good characteristic of a tailgate rubber band is one that isn't going to hang around. It's not important, to me anyway, that I save the rubber band to reuse. I would rather not risk a mal and use a new .5 cent elastic.

Katie

3ringheathen

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

In reply to: I will continue to use them on the tailgate, and only use 2 wraps on the lower stuff.
K
I don't get it.
Certainly there are people out there with far more jumps than me that use Black rubberbands on their tailgate without problems, but the potential problem is indisputable, and so very easily avoided.

Why would you endorse using something that might hang up and kill when an alternative is readily available?
Is the inconvenience of replacing a rubber band that great?

boggled.
-josh

TomAiello

Re: [3ringheathen] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

I personally don't use them for anything.

The advantage of using a black band girth hitched to the tailgate is that you can use the same band for many jumps. I once had one last past 50 jumps. This is (a) easier, since you don't have to carry a bag of rubber bands around, and (b) more environmentally friendly (how important that is to you is a personal decision) because you don't leave rubber bands at the bottom of objects.

The disadvantages are (a) greater potential to remain unbroken in a hang-up situation, and (b) greater likelihood to hang up because you are using a girth hitch (larkshead) to hold the band onto the tailgate (in order to gain the longevity advantages).

peterk

Re: [TomAiello] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

I figured out again that BASE isn't perfect yet, and we learned a lesson. Don't use black bands, and if you do, know why you are doing it... Jumpers before us had to figure out the same way that slider-down jumps should have the control lines outside the guide rings. We'll laugh about black bands 5 years from now.

Now lets work on making BASE perfect and completely safe, and see who sticks around when there is no risk...

My warning label never made so much sense...

Parachute systems when properly assembled, packed, and operated are still dangerous and unreliable. You should consider yourself a test jumper when using this equipment.

K763

Re: [TomAiello] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

The advantage of using a black band girth hitched to the tailgate is that you can use the same band for many jumps. I once had one last past 50 jumps. This is (a) easier, since you don't have to carry a bag of rubber bands around, and (b) more environmentally friendly (how important that is to you is a personal decision) because you don't leave rubber bands at the bottom of objects.

In reply to: Yes, the environmental issue is why Todd and Anne looked for a better alternative than the regular beige bands. They walked around under a low cliff deployment area and noticed DOZENS of bands littering the area. In keeping with the "LEAVE ONLY TRACKS" ethic, they found the black bands to last longer and leave hardly any mess behind.

The disadvantages are (a) greater potential to remain unbroken in a hang-up situation, and (b) greater likelihood to hang up because you are using a girth hitch (larkshead) to hold the band onto the tailgate (in order to gain the longevity advantages). What I don't understand about this part of the discussion, is what is the big fear of a tailgate hang up? Am I missing something? Did someone almost die from using a black banded tailgate appropriately? I have not heard of one single instance of this, so I'm confused as to why everyone is so adamant that the black bands on the tailgate is a bad idea. Please enlighten me; I need this information. Thank you.

Faber

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

3ringheathen

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

In reply to: What I don't understand about this part of the discussion, is what is the big fear of a tailgate hang up? Am I missing something? Did someone almost die from using a black banded tailgate appropriately? I have not heard of one single instance of this, so I'm confused as to why everyone is so adamant that the black bands on the tailgate is a bad idea. Please enlighten me; I need this information. Thank you.
Karen:
I'm not aware of any fatalities, yet.
I'm not concerned about a total malfunction, I'm concerned about hesitation on a low jump. Has it happened? I think it probably has. Whether or not the jumper realized what happened is another story.

Has it been documented? I don't know, but theoretically it could. I'm not going to wait for a fatality before I take the risk seriously. YMMV.

The environmental concerns occured to me. I think a happy compromise would be girth hitching a small brown rubber band. I'd imagine that this is safer, and generally, even a broken band that's been girth hitched will stay with the gear.

It's what I usually do. If I'm doing an ultra low jump, I won't even girth hitch it, just for extra peace of mind.

A side note:
FWIW I don't doubt the motives of any manufacturer so far. We're all in this for fun, but it's a complex game with a steep learning curve and huge penalties for screwing up. It is the nature of the sport.
I'm sure every one of us is clueless about something that others take for granted. That's why this forum is so valuable.
-Josh

peterk

Re: [K763] BLACK BANDS PRESS RELEASE

What is the big fear of a tailgate hang up? DEATH or serious injury!

I don't think anyone is saying that you will die using a black tailgate band. I think the growing concensus is that you can die from a black rubber band, (I think we established that they suck for skydiving, and really suck for BASE). In fact, I will never use a rubber band on any of my gear, except for the primary stow for slider up. I am going to use masking tape for my tailgate, just taping the lines together.

I remember reading about the environmental impact of jumpers trashing objects with bands. Not only are they really small and natural color, but I have walked the bottom of Tstone several times to check, and found three bands that looked like rubber bands left in the sun for a year. They broke into pieces when I picked them up. And I was staring at the ground walking for a half hour, at perhaps one of the most jumped cliffs in the world. I actually can't believe that I am discussing on the internet about the use of black bands saving the environment, when they serve NO advantage at all, and have met several jumpers who have had tailgate hangups, because of the black super bands.

If saving the environment, one rubber band at a time is such a concern that it overrides your instinctive desire to not get killed, do your thing. But I am going to carry a packet of flower seeds from Home Depot, and sprinkle them at the landing areas to counteract the rubber bands and masking tape that I leave behind, until they biodegrade in the sun anyways...

Seriously, what is the fascination with black rubber bands in BASE?