Class Action Lawsuit - NPS

460

Re: [TomDancs] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS

try emailing Rick Harrison or PM'ing him instead of calling him.

HOBO #7

1969912

General Suggestion

See attachment for suggestion. It is not directed at anyone in particular, and should not be taken personally. Some will understand, some not.

Any questions or comments? Please PM me. PM's that don't look like they are from regular forum participants will be ignored, as will PM's intended as flames. If you feel compellled to flame my ass, do it in public, I rather enjoy it.

Thank You!

nicrussell

Re: [1969912] General Suggestion

You asked for it, so I REFUSE to call you a dipshit. I also WILL NOT call you an annoying ass who has nothing to contribute to a somewhat thought provoking subject. And to call you an ASSinine cock sucker would serve no purpose but to please your own diluted sense of self numbering, SO I WONT.

=nic

(cya in 2 weeks)

base283

Re: [nicrussell] General Suggestion

IMHO, One must assess the morality of the poster's posts before playing god and judging the individual.
Take care,
space

dmcoco84

Class Action Lawsuit - NPS

Aight guys. Please take personal chats to PMs. This thread is not the place. This is a serious matter and I'd like to keep this thread clean of clutter and dealing only with important and/or relevant info.

Thanks
Coco

dmcoco84

Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

Hey Everyone,

I just wanted to make a quick note. My goal with this lawsuit is to approach the issue of gaining access to our National Parks in a way that has not yet been done. Through a few people I have spoken with individually and the research I have done so far, I feel my original statement is slightly flawed. Some rewording and plan changing is necessary.

I do not think that our best course of action is trying to secure long term permits. I feel it would be better to pursue a lawsuit involving the “misclassification of an appropriate activity within NPS land due to discrimination” rather than securing any form of a permit. If we stay listed as a special use activity requiring permits, the NPS will be able to regulate us much easier and cause many more problems for us down the road. If we prove in a courtroom that our sport is an “appropriate activity”, then we in turn will not be required to hold a permit. I think it would also be easier to prove a sport is appropriate through factual data rather than arguing for a right of use while still classified as “special use.”

Wording is everything and I’m positive our legal guidance will further mold the suit.

Now, I will not go into much detail here on the board planning and idea wise. As we all know, the NPS does look in now and then! So it is my request that those who have solid legal/political connections and/or ideas please PM me instead of posting. In addition to discussion of your idea, I will pass the info onto other front-runners in the case once we establish other individual’s involvement in the process. But either way, the less the NPS can find out the better!

As I said before I will be in out of the country for July and August for BASE so if you do PM me, please allow me some time to reply. Any help is welcome and appreciated!

Thanks
Coco

gauleyguide

Re: [dmcoco84] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS

I'm not a layer, but I would think about challenging the "arial delivery" thing with "intent" ?!?!?

One would intend to jump from an object for recreation rather than "arial delivery" for squating.

Kinda like the JC issue with the ESB, reckless endagerment.

If he says he wasn't reckless, we say were not squating

-A

Don't kill yourself!
1-800-273-8255

~Appalachian BASE Club

azdiver

Re: [dmcoco84] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

my ? would be what kind of suit will this be, single ind. or a org. eg. uspa.some points i think might be worth looking at. i think it would be smart to try and get manufactures and sponsors of the sport in as well. not only argue the access part but argue the economics as well. try and show how the nps position has an effect on tourism and funds. its seems to me that the courts have been looking at alot of laws outside this country to make decisions.

Jingleballs

Re: [gauleyguide] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS

In reply to: I'm not a layer...
I'm sorry to hear that...

Wha will tae Cupar maun tae Cupar

MB38

Re: [dmcoco84] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

Glad to see that you're pursuing this.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

gweeks

Re: [azdiver] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

I think Coco is on the right track with appropriate use and discrimination arguments. That is the gist of the argument that snowmobilers and jetskiers successfully used to gain access to the parks and we have a much lower impact activity than they do.

azdiver

Re: [gweeks] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

i agree, it is the right track. just wanted to know weather it was going to be one person v nps or base community v nps or even para sports vs nps. havent looked yet but is paragliding allowed in parks? or does that also fall under the delivery by parachute?

base283

Re: [azdiver] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

Paragliding was allowed and IIRC, They were prohibited because this was the basis of discrimination for another proBASE group fighting for the right to jump.
I think it went something like this:
BASE speaker: Can we jump in the park?
NPS: No.
BASE speaker: But you let Paragliding in the park and you don´t let us. It´s not fair.
NPS: You´re absolutely right. Hey NPS Bob! Prohibit the Paragliders too. See, now it is fair. Bye

Take care,
space

dmcoco84

Re: [azdiver] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

It will be some form of a group (Class Action type) lawsuit. Individual lawsuits are weaker and will drag out the process.

Other examples of discrimination such as paragliding are great to use in our courtroom arguments to show NPS policies and actions are unjust, but we will not be working directly with the paragliding community. This will be a BASE specific lawsuit.

Coco

leroydb

Re: [dmcoco84] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

In reply to: This will be a BASE specific lawsuit.
Can you explain your reasoning on this, here or via PM?

leroy

...I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

NCBMSF3CUTAWAY#1//Every man needs his own Cult following.
»Developing the huck-Flicka-buck™©®«

azdiver

Re: [dmcoco84] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

group? is there one? are you going to start one? as for paragliders not in on actual lawsuit why? how does this action get payed for? pm if you prefer

dmcoco84

Re: [azdiver] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

I wish I had that information. However, because I am still in Europe (as i said above) and only a short period prior to leaving for Norway did I decide upon looking into judicial intervention on this issue, I have not had a whole lot of time to do research. If a lawsuit were to be brought against the NPS, it will occur no less than a year away if not much longer. Lots of ground work, planning, and tons of research needs to be done. And I refuse to spend 1 Kroner a minute for internet access to start the months of research necessary for this. It can wait till I am home.

If a lawsuit were to be brought to the NPS, I don't see more than a one time shot due to funding issues. Unless we find a nice philanthropist to hook us up. A group effort I feel would better suit our needs as a community. I'm not super knowledgeable when it comes to law at the moment, which will change, but I do know there are a few different categories when it comes to group/class action lawsuits. I have a few legal contacts which I will consult on the matter, but more help is always appreciated.

The BASE community is the group. "group" comes into play with which type of "group" lawsuit we pursue.

As for paragliding, as I spoke with Le Roy. There is no need to do so. 1) It complicates the lawsuit. The less information to be looked at by the court system the better. I only want to present factual information about BASE. Just because it involves a parachute, does not give us more leverage in our argument. Using examples of other discrimination in our arguments is great but that's different than asking for more. 2) If the above post by BASE 283 ss correct, then if BASE were made legal, paragliding would too. They would barely have to lift a finger to gain access if we achieve access.

Coco

lifewithoutanet

Post deleted by lifewithoutanet

diablopilot

Re: [lifewithoutanet] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

How does the NPS regulate climbers that operat outside of the guidelines?

I'm just another asshole.

dmcoco84

Re: [lifewithoutanet] Class Action Lawsuit - NPS **Update**

Collin,

Your last post was completely uncalled for. We didn't even fully discuss what was said in the emails (your initial email to me and my response) before you jumped to a post bashing my ideas and efforts. Just like Robin, who i have spoke to through many Pm's, you are for the efforts of the ABP. You are not even considering the possibility of a lawsuit because of what you want to do.

If I spend the next year researching legal matters, ways of approaching the lawsuit and many other things that need to be looked over and considered and I find that a lawsuit is not the best for our community as a whole. Then I will no longer pursue judicial intervention and allow the ABP to continue there work and hope for the best. Hell, I'll join the ABP and do what I can to assist.

You emailed me with questions and I shared some ideas. You didn't even respond yet and allow me to clarify specifics before posting to the community. That's just not cool.

As for the one shot deal. I'm talking one long haul shot. From the first step into the courtroom through the appellate process till the end(whatever that may be). Even if we get to the Federal Supreme Court we may lose and "another shot" may be necessary. If I couldn't appeal a decision in the lowest of courts due to funding issues, there is no point in even trying because that's how the law works. If NPS loses in the lowest court, you can guarantee they will appeal. I'm planning on a long drawn out lawsuit that is going t be a big pain my ass. I would have clarified that if you would have asked me through our emails.

Do you seriously think, I'm going to walk into a courtroom with BS to feed to a judge. Come on now. I'm not goin to do months of research and put my time and money in this to put my thumb up my butt.

I'm going to be going to medical school dude. Research and studying is my life. Just like I wouldn't take the MCATs without knowing my stuff, I wouldn't fight a federal agency without having a solid case.

In reply to: The only foundation we have for a lawsuit at this time is discrimination
You are incorrect. Further emails would have showed you this. But again you jumped to conclusions. I'm not going to throw all my ideas on a international BASE board. And you didn't ask about other ideas for approach in your email.

In reply to: I think there's more to be done before jumping to a class action suit, but that's just my opinion.
You might be right, time and research will tell. But your way, and the ABP way, still leaves us under special use classification and permit based jumping. I don't agree with that.

EVERYONE, PLEASE LISTEN! I am in Nowary currently. I am going to KL, RG and BD also. Between RG and BD, classes will be starting so I will be working full time in a hospital ER (night shift), going to school during the day and working on researching this matter. At the current moment these are baseline/starter ideas. Please, just relax and give me some time to research and have some solid data and then we can fully work on this together (off the board) and knock out the kinks. Your trying to bake a cake without the ingredients. Just chill out until I can get home and start seriously working on this. This is extremely important to me and I will do my very best to make this successful. Email me ideas and I will be more than happy to talk with you and ad them to the potential game plan. Anyone who has emailed me can vouch that I have replied fully within a day or two. And I'm on a BASE trip!!!

Thanks
Coco

P.S. This post just cost me 30 USD. There's 30 USD that doesn't go to the cause...

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