Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

meekerboy

Re: [portillo] Aw man

If God forbid I should die on a BASE jump, I want my name to go down on the list for 2 reasons:

1. So other people contemplating entering the sport can see the real dangers and not underestimate the seriousness of the risks.
2. So active BASE jumpers can learn from the mistakes of other people. This may lead them to change their technical practices, it may also lead those 'push the limit's the step back a little.

I don't want my name to be there as a testiment 'no shit I want to be remembered'. I want the BASE fatality list to be a place where people decide if this sport is for them and where they can learn.

HydroGuy

Re: [RayLosli] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

In reply to: So no one has to like or dislike the ( World BASE Fatality List ) . Just live with it. or Die on it.
That's the reality of it with no bullshit attached...

justinhawxhurst

Re: [Clair] Aw man

I am not a BASE jumper but have just lost a long time friend in the BASE world ( Stefan Oberlander) so I hear what you mean when you speak of lost friends. On the other hand I am a pro skier and have lost at least one friend a year and up to 7 in a year for the past 10 years. I do feel that some of them would still be here if there was a place that they could of read about all the others that have passed and seen the risk in what they were getting into. Most of the deaths have not been new kids but the veterans of the sport yes they know what they were doing and that is not the sad part the sad part is when a new kid gets in over his head and ends up dead do to ignorance. As a new skydiver but an athlete who pushes the limits which can and does result many death I think the list makes me step back and think a bit more on "Do I want to get into this". AS for not having a list of the other sports There is not one because it would be many books long and impossible to keep updated.

Just my thoughts and rip to all the lost friends and family.

Zoter

Re: [HydroGuy] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

I dont see the List as a 'memorial' to fallen jumpers...although you can see how thats how it could be interpreted.
As already said....all of these people I'm sure were much more than 'BASE' and the List should not necessarily be the place defined as the 'memorial' to them.....but rather that should be somewhere else, in a place their family and close friends want it to be ( public/private )

The List , in my opinion, is a chronological record, a description of what went wrong and perhaps what could be avoided as well as a warning to us newbies coming along...

I think we are all told to read the list, before contemplating BASE....I did....I printed it out and read/analysed the entries over several weeks...and it does have a sobering effect on you if you do it this way..As my experience level increases I still go back and read through things I already analysed...and see things sometimes in a different light.

Its something , I think, that needs to be there in one form or another.
Personally I'd like to see more information on what might have gone wrong/what lead the event to happen...more than the List being a place to honour those who have died....I dont feel its accomplishing both (to their relative justices) at the moment..

But personally ...I'm glad its around, it serves a purpose....but sad to see the entries

Gizzoogling it or whatever its called.....IMHO...took a stab at degrading something I considered 'sacred'
Some things just shouldnt be turned into a joke as I see it..
....but the man who did it was the man who started the list...I still dont know what to think about that.

DaveO

Re: [RayLosli] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

I'm with Ray on this one. Hell, I've thought about sending Nick my best BASE pic just in case I end up on the list myself.

wwarped

Re: [jimmyh] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

In reply to: the BASE fatality list is distasteful, wrong, disgusting, hurtful, sickening, offensive, abhorrent, etc. etc. etc.
it seems you have suffered a serious loss. (I never met your friend.)

the List is simply a tool. it can be used well, or improperly. the user gets to choose.

I that the list exists. remember in the jumgle movies? all the shrunken heads marking a sacred spot? the List serves that sort of purpose. it warns people entering.

youTube (and video in general) typically show the cool stuff and entice the unwary to BASE. the List acts as a balance, as a means to sober potential BASE jumpers. making the page unavailable to the public would destroy this function.

the List is NOT really a memorial to the people. you'd need a separated webpage for each individual to do them justice. the List is more about documenting mistakes. it needs the human face to grab people's attention.

I'm sure people have been offended by things I've said and done. you obviously know you have offended others as well. before we ask others to "clean up their act," should we not ask it of ourselves first? are you now free of sin?

p.s.
other sports do NOT compile such a list. most likely because of length and it counters marketing initiatives.

USPA publishes fatalities, but it cleanses the reports of all personal info, and does NOT make public an entire list, just an annual one. is that preferable?

-free with 3-

wwarped

Re: [Clair] Aw man

In reply to: When i was learning to BASE jump the one thing that people repeatedly said was that both me and my parents should read the list. Finally i did and i found it sickening
HIDGAF?

really?

-free with 3-

VincentVL.

Re: [wwarped] Aw man

Even though I might post a little too much, certain fragments of the list have slowed down my urge to rush into it all.

It is the counterweight to all those Jet Snortless and Raddy Holliday vids out there that show what a wonderful experience BASE can be. I think they have the tendency to portray BASE as the new cool, but I'm afraid a lot of prospective jumpers don't really understand the possible pricetag of all that joy.

podl01

Re: [jimmyh] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

"I want to publicly announce my complete displeasure with the BASE fatality list...it's distasteful, wrong, disgusting, hurtful, sickening, offensive, abhorrent, etc. etc. etc."

I totally agree - we don't need a base fatality list like this.

what's with our base ethics here?
Here at the point where it comes to real ethics I realize how strange the base fatality list is, "producing" jumpers who have already prepared their picture for the list, just in case... how sick is that?

We for sure need a list where we can learn from base fatalities and to prevent accidents happen again and again. But we don't need personal information in it.

we don't learn more about basejumping when we know the jumpers name.

---

biker117

Re: [podl01] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

[we don't learn more about basejumping when we know the jumpers name.]

well, it shows that there are real persons involved in it, and this is what will make people think about the risk, because they can identify with what happened better. if one just reads about an accident that happened to "someone" it doesn't have the same effect, as if one reads about someone who had a family and friends and a life when he/she died. it makes you think, this might happen to you, too, if you don't take care or even though you take care...

KrisFlyZ

Re: [wwarped] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

Not arguing that the list has no use. The following is just an observation.

I don't think that the list really deters anyone from entering the sport. More likely than not, someone wanting to enter BASE that reads the list is going to think "I have read about this person and how (and in some cases why) he died, so it is not going to happen to me( or I know how to avoid it). "

Without some kind of rationalization that amounts to "it is not going to happen to me", it is not possible to enter the sport. Regardless of what people want to say now.

Kris.

Waldschrat

Re: [podl01] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

Without this list, i would be probably on this list.

Clearing the list, to make the jumper anonymous, is making the danger impersonalize. (This will not happen to me.)

I am sober, most of the time, but my english is horrible, like from a drunken filipino sailor.

NZflygirl

Re: [KrisFlyZ] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

In reply to: Without some kind of rationalization that amounts to "it is not going to happen to me", it is not possible to enter the sport. Kris.
Unless, of course, you are hoping that it *will* happen to you...

majestik666

Re: Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

Being an active BASE reader (not jumper yet), I think you'll always have divergent point of views on the list...
As a pedagogic tool to learn as much as I can about skydiving and base jumping , I'd rather read a list of
accidents/incident, the causes and a discussion on what
to do to avoid/solve the problem (just like the Incident forum here ....)
But on the other hand, it's good for me and for other
people am sure to have this list to put your head back where it should be when you have the "I want to go BASe jumping now" idea in mind ...
That said, having a photo, name location etc, am not
sure it really helps the purpose

my 2 cents

outrager

Re: [jimmyh] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

In reply to: I want to publicly announce my complete displeasure with the BASE fatality list.
The list must remain. It is your responsibility not to fuck up and end up on the list. Consequences of dying include a list entry. This is a fact of life whether you like it or not.

bsbd!

Yuri.

JSBIRD

Re: [jimmyh] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. The list is a valuable and accurate resource designed to protect the living from themselves. As humans, we need all the help we can get.

359

Fuck Red Bull...and all who suck it's tainted teat.

Clair

Re: [JSBIRD] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

It appears that the one common thought about the BFL is that it serves some higher purpose in the form of education.

It's not that aspect of the list that I find abhorrent.

these words are at the top of the page...
"Published for its Educational, Historical, and Memorial Value . . . "

It's the subjectivity of the keeper of the page in his depiction of people who he never even knew that I find disrespectful and counterproductive to BASE jumping in general. How is it his ethical role to write anythiing memorialistic about these people? And what do the the dot dot dots stand for?

Obviously very few of you agree with me...

biker117

Re: [Clair] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

"Published for its Educational, Historical, and Memorial Value . . . "

in these manners the fatility list reminds me of a war memorial for WW II or so. In the village where I live we have a boerd with all the NAMES of the people of that town that died in WW II. It is supposed to remind you of the meaninglessness of the war, for which all these people had to die. Of course this is a different topic, but the fatility list is also there to say that this shouldn't happen again.

tfelber

Re: [jimmyh] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

People are saying a list of this sort doesn't exist in other sports, what about the incident forum? Is this not a list of similar magnitude for skydiving? With similar information? Should the list become a wikipedia type platform where people can add what they feel is pertinent? I'm sure this would take a load off Nick's shoulders.

As for internet password protection, who would monitor this database? How would you decide who gets a password? Would you change it every few weeks to keep it secure?

An incident list is quite useful in sports like BASE, skydiving, rope jumping, paragliding, climbing, etc. The list helps prevent the recurring problem and make the danger of the activity a reality. How many of you check your gear differently since the Hilder incident? I know I do!

As for the personal aspects of such a list, I think it adds to my understanding of the incident, cause and effect, when I know a little about the person. I know he was some guy making bad choices and headed down the wrong path to begin with. It makes it a little harder to just rationalize away the issue as "it won't happen to me".

I have friends on the list. There are people I've met online, people I've jumped with, people that died while I was present. I don't think the list degrades them in anyway. I sometimes read the list just so I don't forget about the person and who they were to me. I also find people on the list I wish I had met before they made the list. This has me regard jumpers I meet at an exit point in a different way.

I think the list has several strong points. I think the biggest burden is it's maintenance. I feel Nick has an attachment to the list and this comes from his attachment to the sport, so the info in the list is fairly accurate. But he also catches the wrath when someone disagrees like Jimmy and Clair. If it was more of a free entry platform like the way a Wikipedia is supposed to work it may be even more complete.

SpecialKaye

Re: [Clair] Value (or not) of The List (World BASE Fatality List)

how many on the list did you know? for those of us that knew more than our fair share after years of being around, there is value...whether it be educational, historical or memorial value, matters not.

i can't say i haven't visited the list to see what was written about any of my lost friends. most that are lost, the discussion was completed regarding what happened that caused their demise. nevertheless, the historical and memorial value lives.

kaye

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