Group Dynamics in BASE

RayLosli

Re: [1108] Group Dynamics in BASE

Ya I like those Porta Potties that have that little sink in them also. But dude, The Sinks are really low and the Soap always smells like Piss. ...
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leroydb

Re: [NickDG] Group Dynamics in BASE

I know you must be referencing the quote from John Donne. I have underlined what I think and feel most applies here in this moment in time; especially considering the recent incidents. (RIP and respect to all)

Meditation XVII: No man is an island...
"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

Added:

So what can we take, give or share from this?
The thought that the general population is not secluded from one another, but that mankind is interconnected; and that the lucid understanding of our susceptibility to death seems to be a natural consequence of a point when death is the constant acquaintance of life.

So are we saying that "Negative Group Dynamics" is a "constant acquaintance" as related to BASE jumping? I can see how we could easily say yes... But a huge part of me: the explorer, the curious, the puzzle solver, the challenge taker, etc says that we can utilize Group Dynamics. I will go as far to say that we can utilize Group Dynamics not only for ourselves, but also to "positively” affect others.
I so feel that we can, but maybe then again, I want it to so much that it might be working against itself?

leroy

...I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

NCBMSF3CUTAWAY#1//Every man needs his own Cult following.
»Developing the huck-Flicka-buck™©®«

RiggerLee

Re: [leroydb] Group Dynamics in BASE

I started to post this as a responce in incedents but this is probable a better location for it.

I walked down off a really big cliff earlier this year. One that I've been drooling over for years. I didn't do it once I did it three times. It's a long story. Weather was part of it but beyond that there was a good size ledge. Even when other people were jumping past it I just was not 100% sure I could clear it, big heavy rig no tracking suit or wings. It hurts. It's really hard to come all that way and then turn around. Especially when it means that long of a hike.

The point I'm trying to make is that this is a defining characteristic of a base jumper. It's as fundamental as being able to pack. It's the dividing line between some one who has made base jumps and some one who is a base jumper. The willingness to say no. No to weather. No to the exit point. No to the landing area. No to the gear I'm jumping. Or to just admit that you're not feeling up to it that day. Some thing I've always told younger jumpers is that if you want to base jump be prepared to walk down, if you want to be a base jumper make a practice of it.

People get into trouble when they don't realize that they are in over their head. But far more often they get into trouble because they can't admit even to them selves that they are in too deep. They strangle the little voices in the back of their mind. It's a habit you get into when you consistently do things that you are unprepared for.

Fear comes from one of two things. The fear of the unknown and the fear of the inescapable. I'll try to explain. When you don't know what is going to happen, or what to do, the unknown dangers out there in the mist are just terrifying. The monster that your mind will conjure out of the dark are far worse then any thing that actually walks the night. The other fear is of a possibility you can not deal with. There are very real things out there in the night and some of them do bite. That's why you should carry a gun. If you've got a gun you don't need to be afraid of them. They only reason you should be afraid of them is if you're unarmed against them. If you're ready for that 180 then it's not nearly as frightening. You wont be shaking at the exit point. If you are afraid then it's because your doing something you shouldn't be doing. That buttress on the right is just too tight. 90 right is wall. You're scared and you should be. It's the very rational voice in the back of your mind telling you that maybe you shouldn't be doing this. Bright people lessen. I'll admit I'm not always bright but I try.

Here's the problem. If you are constantly in over your head. If you are never really prepared. If you really haven't trained enough. If you never really understood your gear. Then you are always in the unknown. What your doing may be perfectly fine but your alarm bells are misfiring all the time anyways. You're never really comfortable but you keep doing it any ways. Over time you learn to ignore those sirens and klaxons. If fact you learn to smile and joke. You put on a brave face and just don't think about it. That one of the biggest danger signs, when you stop thinking about what might go wrong. If you're truly prepared then it wont bother you to think about what might happen. You've got a plan, a flow chart of how you're going to deal with it.

I believe this is how people get in to trouble. They learn to ignore the voices. They can no longer tell the difference. They lose perspective on the level of risk. I think this is how people get pushed into things. Large groups can bread a hot house atmosphere but it's the inability to say no that gets people into trouble and I believe it is from the inability to gage risk level. That ability is lost in our continued push beyond our comfort level. I see this in the young jumpers. They are learning so fast and pushing forward so hard that they are always afraid. They become numb to it. It's hard to see the edge coming when you're going that fast. When you've disconnected the alarm bells you don't know when you're really getting close to the edge of the envelope.

We all deal with both of these kinds of fear. The very act of growing implies pushing outwards into the unknown. We all have to work through this at times. Here's a test. This may not be the best standard but it's one I've used. You're nerves. Fine. Stand on the exit point and envision every possible problem and think of how you're going to deal with them. If you can do this and your heart rate doesn't speed up then it's a phantom fear. It's your mind fucking with you. If you can't do that then you need to go back and review your plan. Ether some thing in it is week or you're missing something. You're mind is trying to warn you. The trick is to find the problem and analyze it. What is it that I'm missing. What are the odds of it happening. The term is risk management. I'm not saying you shouldn't walk under the serrac but maybe you should hurry and I deffinantly wouldn't stop to have lunch there no matter how sheltered and cozy it looked. I'm not saying you shouldn't make the jump. But after taking the time to scan and pick out an alternate landing area on the talus in the event of an off heading I found that I was a lot less nervous.

It's not bad to push some times but then you should retreat back to where you are comfortable for a while.

Did I do any better with the spelling this time? I know I suck. I start to answer something in the little response form and before you know it I'm rambling on semi coherently. I generally don't mean these post to be so long. I get lazy and don't take the time to open up another program to try and spell check it. Hell, some time they cant even figure it out. It's even worse when it's late and I can't sleep. When trying to translate Lee try thinking phonetically with poor pronunciation. I'm sorry I'm so fucking stupid.

Lee

Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

leroydb

Re: [RiggerLee] Group Dynamics in BASE

In reply to: People get into trouble when they don't realize that they are in over their head. But far more often they get into trouble because they can't admit even to them selves that they are in too deep. They strangle the little voices in the back of their mind. It's a habit you get into when you consistently do things that you are unprepared for.

In reply to: It's not bad to push some times but then you should retreat back to where you are comfortable for a while.
I know what you mean. I sometimes get jested by a couple people because of how slow I progress in BASE, or how I sometimes take an extra minute to "align the stars and moon." And climbing down or walking away... we should all walk away or climb down once in a while when everything is perfect... I have done it at TF, Royal Gorge, Malaysia, and other places jsut to test yourself. I know I can trust myself... I think that there are less people in the world that can trust themselve, than those that can. One thing I tell myself, is that I am not in this to prove anything to anyone or impress others.

As much as BASE is a very individual sport, it is also very group oriented. What we do as individuals effects and affects the whole Group in a Dynamic way.

And with the influx of new blood, we need to find a way to "herd cats." NickDG... what say ye?

leroy

...I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

NCBMSF3CUTAWAY#1//Every man needs his own Cult following.
»Developing the huck-Flicka-buck™©®«

dudeman17

Re: [NickDG] Group Dynamics in BASE

In reply to: I know full well I sometimes sound like the voice of doom and gloom to younger jumpers here. But I know if Mike Allen was here, if Rick Payne was here, if Mark Hewitt was here, if John Hoover was here, if Nigel Slee was here, if Dennis McGlynn was here, if Frank Gambalie was here, if Jan Davis was here, if Don Swazye was here, if J.D. Walker was here, and if Matt McCarter and Lane Kent were here - they would all be telling you the same thing.

Well, Nick, one of us is here, and I say Amen, brother.

I consider it one of the fortunate events of my life to have been in the right place at the right time at the right age to have been involved in the beginning of BASE. I feel like i witnessed and took part in one of the last pure acts of mankind.

Maybe I'm just getting old and cynical, but I look at what a lot of BASE is now, and it's like your daughter got gang-raped... - and she liked it.

BASE 17

NickDG

Re: [dudeman17] Group Dynamics in BASE

Hey Bro,

Ha, had to look up your BASE number (memory is going) and I sure hope you stick around here. I've been trying to keep these cats linked to their past but it's uphill with more than a few of them . . .

Anyway I'm glad you're here. The smell of pimple cream in this place could really use a whiff of Ben Gay . . .

NickD

eXXXtreme

Re: [dudeman17] Group Dynamics in BASE

In reply to: it's like your daughter got gang-raped... - and she liked it.
Why would you disparage a woman for expressing her sexuality?

Calvin19

Post deleted by Calvin19

TomAiello

Re: [Calvin19] Group Dynamics in BASE

Dude man was referring to himself (and his own family).

You were the one who turned it around to throw it at another poster who wasn't part of the whole reference. You want to join in for yourself, that's fine, but you were dragging other people into it who weren't part of that particular bit of lovely imagery, and who didn't want to be part of it.

It looks to me like you're the one getting you're panties twisted over not much.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

Bryan_S

Re: [NickDG] Group Dynamics in BASE

NickDG wrote: >>I know full well I sometimes sound like the voice of doom and gloom to younger jumpers here. But I know if Mike Allen was here, if Rick Payne was here, if Mark Hewitt was here, if John Hoover was here, if Nigel Slee was here, if Dennis McGlynn was here, if Frank Gambalie was here, if Jan Davis was here, if Don Swazye was here, if J.D. Walker was here, and if Matt McCarter and Lane Kent were here - they would all be telling you the same thing.
Nick I'm still here, Mike Allen is still a voice in my head. Maybe its time I break out of my malaise and resurrect those images we worked so hard on.

Bryan

Bryan_S
BASE #132

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