We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

RoadBuzzard

The squeaky wheels get the grease.

RoadBuzzard

Re: [RoadBuzzard] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Let's brainstorm

LeeroyJenkins

Re: [RoadBuzzard] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

I'm sure people have tried to get paragliding and parasailing legalized with vague enough terms for BASE to be included too.

hjumper33

Re: [RoadBuzzard] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

“Hey NPS, we really want parachutes allowed in your parks”. NPS - “will that make us more money?” Us - “no”. End of discussion.

BigfcknG

Re: [hjumper33] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Propose a paid permit system. There's their income.

seekfun

Re: [BigfcknG] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

And then again, Her Majesty takes the freedoms and liberties from the peasants and sells them back to them.

BigfcknG

Re: [seekfun] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Land of the free.

Whoever.told you that is your enemy.

hjumper33

Re: [BigfcknG] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Go to yosemite any time during the summer. The place is so packed with tourists that you can barley drive around. Unless they charged 10k a permit, there’s no reason for them to change anything. Technically, it’s a permitable activity, they just don’t grant the permits in most parks (see bridge day as an exception). They will also point out the death during the last protest jump. The nice thing is if you’re a decent base jumper, you can get away with jumping in just about any national park you want.

jski123

Re: [RoadBuzzard] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Until the day I get busted I'm going to say that I really don't mind it. I might even go as far to say I kind of like that it's illegal. I enjoy the solitude of being on top without anybody else there.

TomAiello

Re: [jski123] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

jski123 wrote: Until the day I get busted I'm going to say that I really don't mind it. I might even go as far to say I kind of like that it's illegal. I enjoy the solitude of being on top without anybody else there.
This is a fair point, and one that is often overlooked.

I think that legalizing BASE in national parks in the USA would result in an almost instant circus, and a subsequent total ban.

If we want legal access to national parks, we first need to come up with a way to avoid that happening. Yosemite couldn't sustain LB's incident rate for three months, let alone permanently.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

piisfish

Re: [TomAiello] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

setarkos

Re: [piisfish] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Fatalities went down globally...

Legal Yosemite would probably also decrease the number of incidents in the Swiss valley.

Mitchpee

Re: [TomAiello] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

TomAiello wrote: jski123 wrote: Until the day I get busted I'm going to say that I really don't mind it. I might even go as far to say I kind of like that it's illegal. I enjoy the solitude of being on top without anybody else there.
This is a fair point, and one that is often overlooked.

I think that legalizing BASE in national parks in the USA would result in an almost instant circus, and a subsequent total ban.

If we want legal access to national parks, we first need to come up with a way to avoid that happening. Yosemite couldn't sustain LB's incident rate for three months, let alone permanently.
To be honest I don’t think it’s a fair point at all. It’s actually more hypocritical. Let’s say you do everything “right” jumping in parks have a tension knot and land in a tree. Then are you really going to say with a $3,000 bill and equipment replacement fees added onto your hospitals that you were happy it’s illegal? If you can then congrats you’re not a hypocrite. But I doubt that’s the case.

Maybe there’s a way to prevent the circus atmosphere. I mean it’s 2017 we are launching private enterprises into space maybe we could all come up with some ideas and productive conversation to integrate recreational activities in national parks instead of crossing our arms across and saying nope it just ain’t gonna happen.

TomAiello

Re: [Mitchpee] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Mitchpee wrote: TomAiello wrote: If we want legal access to national parks, we first need to come up with a way to avoid that happening. ...maybe we could all come up with some ideas and productive conversation to integrate recreational activities in national parks instead of crossing our arms across and saying nope it just ain’t gonna happen.
I think you just said exactly the same thing that I said (see the bolded portion of my post, and the relevant portion of yours).

Rather than just agitating for access, there needs to be a plan on how that access would work (and what the accident mitigation strategy is).

Just "making a scene" without a plan isn't going to be very effective.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

TomAiello

Re: [setarkos] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

setarkos wrote: Legal Yosemite would probably also decrease the number of incidents in the Swiss valley.
Yes, but it would probably increase the number of incidents in Yosemite.

Which of those statistics is important to the the US National Park Service?

I honestly don't think the NPS cares what the incident rate is in other places. They care about the incident rate in the lands they administer.

Agitating for legal access without some kind of plan is counterproductive. It just makes BASE jumpers generally look like a bunch of disorganized whiners. Presenting a reasonable plan that addresses the concerns of the NPS (incidents, impact on other park visitors, traffic, costs, etc.) is going to be much more productive.

Instead of "making a scene" we should be "drafting a plan".

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

Mitchpee

Re: [TomAiello] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Post was directed at guy who said I like it’s illegal until I have to suffer the consequences.

Not sure if the making a scene in quotes is in response to me or not but I can assure you I’ve never advocated for just making a scene. My position has always been slow, thorough and responsibly introduced park impact procedures.

zmorlock

Re: [TomAiello] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Has a religious exemption ever been discussed?
Maybe a first amendment permit organized event, control the group as members of the church.

TomAiello

Re: [zmorlock] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

zmorlock wrote: Has a religious exemption ever been discussed?
It's been discussed many times.

I'm not sure that it's every been taken any further than that.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

Mitchpee

Re: [TomAiello] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

Using loopholes to fit through loopholes won’t get us anywhere.

The NPS wants to see something organized. It doesn’t have to be a governing body with rules and regulations necessary but a communal effort to seriously understand the risks and involvement of other people affected by our activity. Such as rescue plans to get us out from trees and cliff strikes, etc. Having a recordable decrease in fatalities is a good first step of evidence we can begin to show that we are better understanding the modes of death in our sport.

The problem is the inherent character of people who want to chase a life of flying from cliffs. We so very easily sell ourselves out in our hedonistic tendencies of living for the now all the time. I include myself in this unfortunate state of mind we sometimes struggle with balance. Things that will help is a general respect for operating margins and a greater appreciation for the little things.

Again, all this is going to have to come from a large group of motivated selfless people that need to get together without our own pleasure being at the forefront of every decision.

Until then let’s just keep chasing that pleasure hoping we aren’t the ones who are going to have to pay the price. Because we are effectively gambling and the house always wins unless you walk away first.

zmorlock

Re: [Mitchpee] We need to start making a scene about parafoil prohibition in USA national parks

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/924601

Not a loophole but a way to organize, like you mentioned.