WLO/WTF Toggle Question

MorfiusX

I just got a new rig from Bad Seed with standard and WTF toggles. The Mayhem canopies have an overhand or surgeons knot for the brake lines. I don't have access to a finger trap and bar tack to create the proper loop for the WTF toggle. I want to be able to switch between standard toggles for slider down/off and WTF toggles for slider up.

What type of knot would be appropriate for the toggle? A double figure eight (I used to climb) seemed like it would work, but I wanted to make sure.

hookitt

Re: [MorfiusX] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

Use a piece of wire to finger trap. It's a bit tough with Dacron lines but you can do it. It's like making a closing loop. Fray the end and put the frayed part only into the wire.

A bartack isn't actually necessary. You can use any sewing machine or in a pinch, just hand stitch it. Do a baseball type stitch. The finger trap won't go anywhere.

Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.

esiwluap

Re: [MorfiusX] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

Any knot will likely not clear the guide ring. If you release your toggle but the line can't clear the guide ring, your releasable toggles have accomplished nothing. Fingertap a loop as hookitt suggests or be quick with your hook knife.

wasatchrider

Re: [esiwluap] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

esiwluap wrote: Any knot will likely not clear the guide ring. If you release your toggle but the line can't clear the guide ring, your releasable toggles have accomplished nothing. Fingertap a loop as hookitt suggests or be quick with your hook knife.

Why would you think it would not pass through the guide ring do you have experience with it hanging up? It doesn't not take much force to pull it through with a single not as I check every time I switch to slider down.

BASE 1519

maretus

Re: [MorfiusX] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

MorfiusX wrote: I just got a new rig from Bad Seed with standard and WTF toggles. The Mayhem canopies have an overhand or surgeons knot for the brake lines. I don't have access to a finger trap and bar tack to create the proper loop for the WTF toggle. I want to be able to switch between standard toggles for slider down/off and WTF toggles for slider up.

What type of knot would be appropriate for the toggle? A double figure eight (I used to climb) seemed like it would work, but I wanted to make sure.
why would you want to do that? what is the downside of using wlo toggles on slider down? i have roughly 400+ sd jumps on wlo toggles and had no issues with them so far. on the.contrary, my only accidental brake line fires have all (3 of them) been slider up (due to a worn out toggle which i then replaced and had no issues since).

if you want to fingertrap though, you can buy a fingertrapping set from paragear super cheap and it gets the job done super nively

Markus
HSBC / SBA / FBA
www.basejump.fi / www.basejumper.ch

Hellis

Re: [maretus] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

maretus wrote: if you want to fingertrap though, you can buy a fingertrapping set from paragear super cheap and it gets the job done super nively
If it's 900 lbs dacron it's going to be tight with the fids from Paragear.
The hole in them is not wide enough.

I bought knitting needles (I think it is) to make my own larger.
You just cut them in half with a wire cutter or similar and then use a drill that is two mm smaler than the needles width to make it hollow.

These 6 mm needles fit well on red and white 900 lbs dacron, but it's very tight on the black.
I have no clue why that is.

5 minutes work IF you have a steady hand while drilling

MorfiusX

Re: [maretus] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

I have had friends who accidentally removed the toggle on SD jumps. Just trying to simplify things an avoid that possibility as much as possible.

To be fair, I rarely jump slider up, so it's really not a big deal either way.

blitzkrieg

Re: [Hellis] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

dacron is IMO the easiest thing to fingertrap.

seriously, find a rigger or someone at a DZ and have them show you. it really should be common knowledge, but i'm not surprised it is not. that's why i made instructional videos on how to do it in my packing video. too many people asking how to do simple things.

MorfiusX

Re: [blitzkrieg] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

I have multiple rigs. I'll just hold off jumping the new one until I can get it bar tacked properly.

Hellis

Re: [blitzkrieg] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

blitzkrieg wrote: dacron is IMO the easiest thing to fingertrap.

seriously, find a rigger or someone at a DZ and have them show you. it really should be common knowledge, but i'm not surprised it is not. that's why i made instructional videos on how to do it in my packing video. too many people asking how to do simple things.

I agree, I havn't said anything else?
All I said is if you don't have the tool you can build one that works really well.
I have both fidsets paragear sells, metal and plastic and none of them work very well on fat dacron IMO.
But on thinner lines they work fine.

blitzkrieg

Re: [Hellis] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

sorry... wasn't aimed at you.

esiwluap

Re: [wasatchrider] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

I would imagine a knot more likely to hang in the ring than a fingertrapped loop. I only use my WLO's when slider up. I use standard big grabs for slider off. The Apex manual for the WLO'S says to only use them with a control line with a sewn loop. I do not own any other manufacturer's releasable toggles so can't comment on what is in their manuals.

TomAiello

Re: [MorfiusX] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

You can set up line release toggles with a back stop knot. I do it all the time, because I use a sliding back stop knot on all my control lines instead of a fixed loop.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

TomAiello

Re: [Hellis] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

Hellis wrote: maretus wrote: If it's 900 lbs dacron it's going to be tight with the fids from Paragear.
The easiest tool to fingertrap 900 dacron with is a hemostat. The 900 is wide enough to slide the head of the hemostat into, and you can clamp it off so it takes basically no skill or practice to do it.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

TomAiello

Re: [MorfiusX] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

MorfiusX wrote: What type of knot would be appropriate for the toggle? A double figure eight (I used to climb) seemed like it would work, but I wanted to make sure.
You shouldn't tie the toggle onto the line with a knot.

Use the knot (single overhand works fine) as a back stop to slide the toggle on. Super fast and simple, and there is no need to untie the knot to get the toggle on or off.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

hjumper33

Re: [TomAiello] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

I agree with the hemostat. Especially for black Dacron, the stiffness makes it a bitch with a trapping tool

OuttaBounZ

Re: [MorfiusX] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

MorfiusX wrote: I have multiple rigs. I'll just hold off jumping the new one until I can get it bar tacked properly.
How did you dial in your brakes..? Oh, I guess you didn't because you have no idea how to finger trap your brake lines.

Coat hanger, bend it in half, finger trap the ends of your brake line at the right length, sew it up by hand with a needle and thread from the junk drawer. Done in 5-10 minutes tops. My god, this is the basic of basics. You can do it, and if not, please trade your rig for a model train set.

Soup
Immaturity is a great quality.
"I can stick uphill ice." Ski In Peace, Shane!

MorfiusX

Re: [OuttaBounZ] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

OuttaBounZ wrote: MorfiusX wrote: I have multiple rigs. I'll just hold off jumping the new one until I can get it bar tacked properly.
How did you dial in your brakes..? Oh, I guess you didn't because you have no idea how to finger trap your brake lines.

Coat hanger, bend it in half, finger trap the ends of your brake line at the right length, sew it up by hand with a needle and thread from the junk drawer. Done in 5-10 minutes tops. My god, this is the basic of basics. You can do it, and if not, please trade your rig for a model train set.
Don't jump to conclusion. I know I'm a newbie, but I only have a few punches on my frequent idiot card...

Like I mentioned before, the brakes were simply overhand knotted on one side of the toggle. It's pretty easy to untie the knot, adjust, and retie.

GreenMachine

Re: Finger Trapping

I personally prefer a loop at the end of my
control lines instead of knots because it is
cleaner (no excess break line flapping) and
in my head slightly stronger / more reliable.

To finger trap cypres loop I use thin wire.
You can find some in any hardware store
or in Walmart look for the picture frames
usually some cheap kit to hang pictures.

To finger trap gutted para-cord I use the
simple tool depicted in this link here:
http://www.blincmagazine.com/...With-You_Static_Line

Finger trapping Dacron had always been a
tedious but from now on I'll definitely
be using my hemostats, thanks for hot tip!

Day BASE 1366
Night BASE 293

TomAiello

Re: [MorfiusX] WLO/WTF Toggle Question

MorfiusX wrote: OuttaBounZ wrote: MorfiusX wrote: I have multiple rigs. I'll just hold off jumping the new one until I can get it bar tacked properly.
How did you dial in your brakes..? Oh, I guess you didn't because you have no idea how to finger trap your brake lines.

Coat hanger, bend it in half, finger trap the ends of your brake line at the right length, sew it up by hand with a needle and thread from the junk drawer. Done in 5-10 minutes tops. My god, this is the basic of basics. You can do it, and if not, please trade your rig for a model train set.
Don't jump to conclusion. I know I'm a newbie, but I only have a few punches on my frequent idiot card...

Like I mentioned before, the brakes were simply overhand knotted on one side of the toggle. It's pretty easy to untie the knot, adjust, and retie.
Your BRAKE SETTING is tied into the line with a knot?!

That's a really bad idea. Please change it before putting another jump on the rig. Seriously.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy