Toggle positioning

TomAiello

Re: [gorillaparks] Toggle positioning

It's totally personal preference.

I face mine out, but that's just my personal preference. I don't think facing them either way makes the toggle more or less likely to be stripped. I do think that the toggles develop a memory in the direction you place them, and I like mine to sit out toward my hands.

Do what makes sense to you.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

JBag

Re: [TomAiello] Toggle positioning

i gut the grab part of the toggles off, i like a challenge!

CAUTION: offensive airwhores post will surely be accompanied with this post...

aussiehegs

Re: [gorillaparks] Toggle positioning

I think that toggles should always be positioned facing OUT for a few reasons:

first, it is much easier to get your hands on the big grabs that are facing out rather than trying to get your hands in between the risers to get them.

secondly, after deploying from a stable body position, your arms are more able to move in a direct, unobstructed motion up to the toggles on opening. in time, this muscle memory will become 2nd nature and should significantly reduce reaction time to heading correction.

don't position your toggles facing in. always out.

kege

Re: [aussiehegs] Toggle positioning

No no no! This is wrong! You should never position your yonkles facing out for undefined very important reasons!

Actually, I personally believe that it makes absolutely NO difference how you place them in there. Of course do whatever makes you happy but I don't think it makes any difference. Especially your reasoning about grabbing your toggles while they are still facing in the direction you placed them underneath your packjob makes me wonder. I'm always suspended under my risers when my canopy hits linestretch, and my yonkles are pointing backwards, not to either side, no?

Kerkko
BASE1184

Fledgling

Re: [aussiehegs] Toggle positioning

aussiehegs wrote: first, it is much easier to get your hands on the big grabs that are facing out rather than trying to get your hands in between the risers to get them.
I don't know about any one else but on every single parachute jump (skydive or BASE) I have ever done I have always found that my toggles end up on the back of the rear risers regardless of how you stow them. No reaching around or between anything. No taking any longer to grab them then other people. No fear of them tearing off on opening for that matter either. I just reach up and there they are on the back of the riser right where I left them. Why do people get so worked up over such trivial shit? If you think that the positioning of your toggles is gonna be what breaks you then you are sadly mistaken. It's time for people to stop with the gear fear and start concentrating on something more constructive.

MBA-PATTO

Re: [Fledgling] Toggle positioning

fledge ...

what about stash bags,,,, do you like pull string or roll over...

I need another 2 mate??

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gorillaparks

Re: [Fledgling] Toggle positioning

In reply to: I don't know about any one else but on every single parachute jump (skydive or BASE) I have ever done I have always found that my toggles end up on the back of the rear risers regardless of how you stow them.
Stiff loop toggles have memory (at least mine do and as Tom mentioned) and tend to protrude off either side of the riser depending on IN or OUT placement during the pack job. Sounds like you have good toggles, congratulations. Glad to hear OUT isn't taboo and is most commonly used!

In reply to: Why do people get so worked up over such trivial shit? If you think that the positioning of your toggles is gonna be what breaks you then you are sadly mistaken. It's time for people to stop with the gear fear and start concentrating on something more constructive. Like flaming random posts? Gear knowledge cures gear fear.

Fledgling

Re: [gorillaparks] Toggle positioning

gorillaparks wrote: Stiff loop toggles have memory (at least mine do and as Tom mentioned) and tend to protrude off either side of the riser depending on IN or OUT placement during the pack job. Bet they don't. In theory yes. In reality not so much.

gorillaparks wrote: Like flaming random posts? No flaming intended. Didn't even call anyone a tard

gorillaparks wrote: Gear knowledge cures gear fear. Correct. That's why I took the time out of my busy schedule to assure every body that no matter which way their toggles are facing when packing they can be easily located again on the back of the rear risers after opening

hookitt

Re: [gorillaparks] Toggle positioning

In reply to: Stiff loop toggles have memory (at least mine do and as Tom mentioned) and tend to protrude off either side of the riser depending on IN or OUT placement during the pack job. Sounds like you have good toggles, congratulations. Glad to hear OUT isn't taboo and is most commonly used!
I wouldn't put much thought into the way they stick out if you point them in or out. Just do it neatly and put them where it seems best.

I have always packed mine inward. I've always been a toggle grabber so I'm certain that it's not a factor if it's pointed that way.

Rig well, rig often.

Good luck

Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.

blitzkrieg

Re: [hookitt] Toggle positioning

i'm with kege and fledgling on this one.

i have always packed them into the center (for no real reason other than personal preference) and almost never look up for them, my hands are just in them on opening. they're always in the same exact place.. it's almost uncanny.

... and that goes for big grabs and normal non-stiffened toggles as well.

Martini

Re: [blitzkrieg] Toggle positioning

At least one well-known packing instruction video recommends facing big-grab toggles inward. I'd estimate his chance of being correct at about 50%. BTW I set mine inward, reason being that with the risers straight down the container the toggles seem to lay better facing in, I don't have any problem grabbing them after opening without even thinking about it.

yuri_base

Re: [gorillaparks] Toggle positioning

gorillaparks wrote: IN (toward center of container) or OUT (toward side flaps of container)?
Is anything wrong with facing toggles DOWN (toward the floor of the container, jumper's back)? I thought the idea was to protect toggles as much as possible from possible hits of the container flaps (especially if you face toggles OUT) or of the nose fabric (if you face them IN).

But then again, some people love adrenaline so much that for them lost toggles are just a bonus.

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aussiehegs

Re: [kege] Toggle positioning

Kege & fledgling, do both of you not have big grabs? i think you'll find that big grabs tend to go one way or the other when you pack them. if you are not using big grabs and are jumping slider down or sub terminal slider up, i recommend u get a pair.

skow

Re: [gorillaparks] Toggle positioning

I think you should always place one in and one out. No matter what the thinking is you'll always grab at least one of them, which is better than sometimes grabbing none :)

MBA-PATTO

Re: [skow] Toggle positioning

I always knew those darm FINS were smart

+1

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TomAiello

Re: [yuri_base] Toggle positioning

yuri_base wrote: Is anything wrong with facing toggles DOWN (toward the floor of the container, jumper's back)?

Will you flatten them, making them into "flat grabs" over the long term?

If not, then I don't think there's anything wrong with that, either. With non-stiffened toggles, I've always placed mine against the pack tray, folded into the "open" position. Again, I think that's pretty much all down to personal preference as well.

Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
Snake River BASE Academy

kege

Re: [aussiehegs] Toggle positioning

Aussiehegs, I have WLO yonkels of the Apex kind, like big grabs but with line release. Like I (and others) mentioned, so far my hands have always found them in the same place on opening, on the rear risers, pointing backwards. Do your toggles change their location, depending on how you set them in the pack tray? If you think it makes a difference, you should go by your instinct. My instinct says it just doesn't matter, atleast not opening wise. For some systems, doing it one way might make for a cleaner looking closed container, or not feeling the toggles sticking in your back through the back panel of the container.

Aussiehegs, if you're uncertain about this, I suggest you sacrifice one pack job and open a closed container thats laying on the floor and lift the pack job off the container, looking at what your risers and toggles are doing. Just imagine the risers being under tension.

Kerkko
BASE1184

Fledgling

Re: [aussiehegs] Toggle positioning

aussiehegs wrote: Kege & fledgling, do both of you not have big grabs? i think you'll find that big grabs tend to go one way or the other when you pack them.
And I think you'll find that no one ever said that they don't. What has been said multiple times is that regardless of the side you pack them on they will end up back in the centre of the rear riser after opening. It's not rocket science so stop over thinking it.

aussiehegs wrote: if you are not using big grabs and are jumping slider down or sub terminal slider up, i recommend u get a pair.
And I recommend you harden the fuck up. Never had a problem getting my hands into standard toggles on opening either. And guess where I found em? Right there on the back of the riser.

wwarped

Re: [Fledgling] Toggle positioning

Fledgling wrote: [ ]. Never had a problem getting my hands into standard toggles on opening either.
I said the same thing, at least until I had an issue that needed prompt attention. then I wished I had the big grabs! now I do. I bet I'm not the only one.

as far as pointing in or out, I really don't think it matters. more importantly, I've never heard a story (although they may be out there).

-free with 3-

themexican

Re: [gorillaparks] Toggle positioning

I have big grab toggles, and as they age they lose their stiffness and will stay pointed to the inside/outside after opening.
In the beginning i always packed with them facing out.

Then one day i decided to pack them facing in since it seemed to make the risers fit better in the tray.
The next jump was a 900' A and i opened low. The slider came down around 100' (which is low for me). My old big grabs were still pointing in with the canopy surging downwind. It took a couple precious seconds getting my hands in. I barely had enough time to make it over a fence and flare.

From now on i replace my big grabs once they lose most of their stiffness (~100 jumps).
I have packed with toggles facing out since.
In my opinion facing out makes more sense since your hands are going to grab them from the outside.

I have also seen regular toggles hurt someone. Not saying they are a bad idea though, johnny utah's method of folding them seems reasonable but i've never tried it.

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