ripstop tape

TransientCW

Re: [Fledgling] ripstop tape

i appreciate the input and i thank you. i guess the bottom line is lets not tear our 2k canopy if we can avoid it.............

gravity brings me down............

lploscar

Re: [maretus] ripstop tape

+1
2,5 years old patch, and 150+ jumps on my Troll. No problems whatsoever.

Luc
Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis!

maretus

Re: [waltappel] ripstop tape

waltappel wrote: To clarify, what concerns me is not the adhesive's holding power, it's the adhesives's ability to degrade nylon fabric over time. Because of that. I stay away from it.
Can somebody please educate me on the practical effects in BASE scenario of this degrading effect of the adhesive on nylon fabric over time? What should I expect from this degrading effect if I patch my canopy with ripstop? The probability that the canopy rips again from the same place becomes higher over time?

The reason why I'm asking is that on my trusty old Troll, I have ripstop tape patched that are good 4 years and 500 jumps old and they still look like I put them on yesterday. So even if the adhesive has somewhat degraged the fabric on my Troll, the degration has been so small that it has had no practical effect in the last 500 jumps or so I've made with the canopy with the pacthes. The canopy has overall about 700'ish jumps on it and I intend to do maybe another 100 or so before retiring it. It was also inspected by the manufacturer about a year ago during line set change and Stane's verdict was also that the fabric is in reasonably good shape and is good to go for another couple of hundred jumps as a back up canopy / second rig. (I mainly jump my Trango nowadays).

So my question is, if a ripstopped canopy can last easily about 700-800 jumps with the patches, how is this adhesive degration effect visible in the fabric and how does it effect the lifetime or durability of the canopy?

Markus
HSBC / SBA / FBA
www.basejump.fi / www.basejumper.ch

waltappel

Re: [maretus] ripstop tape

I can describe my experience from years ago with a skydiving canopy. It was before ZP fabric was developed so nearly all canopies were made of either F-111 or some other kind of ripstop.

I was packing my canopy one day and noticed a long rip on a rib. The rip extended from the front crossport to the rear crossport.

As a temporary repair, the rigger put a long strip of ripstop tape on each side of the tear. I never got a proper repair done on that. I also used ripstop tape to repair small holes in the canopy.

Eventually the ripstop patches started curling at the edges and needed to be replaced. When I removed the patches what I found was that the fabric covered by the ripstop tape absorbed the adhesive and had become hardened. It is difficult to describe (anyone got pictures of this type of damage?) but if you can imagine taking some contact cement or other type of glue, spreading a thin layer over an area of ripstop, and leaving it for months or years until it became hardened and brittle, that's what it looked like.

To answer your question about the practical effect. I don't know that anyone has studied that but it would certainly be a good read. I can only guess. My guess is that if you use ripstop tape, then it should not be removed unless it is being properly patched because the fabric looks to be very weakened after removal.

As long as the adhesive holds, the tape *does* provide structural support, and that may be as strong or stronger than the original fabric. I would not bet on the strength after removal, though. I also consider the strength of the taped fabric to be an unknown, which is scary.

I think there is another factor that comes into play. BASE is a critical application for parachute equipment. I don't want any sloppiness in the gear because it gives me gear fear. Your mileage may vary.

I hope this helps.

Walt

Martini

Re: [waltappel] ripstop tape

It is possible that modern ripstop tape uses different adhesives than the old stuff. Reports of fabric degradation seem to be from pretty long ago, newer users report no problems. It is also possible that adhesives degrade F-111 more than ZP but my money's on newer adhesive being OK.

waltappel

Re: [Martini] ripstop tape

It is entirely possible that modern ripstop is ok but my experience from over 20 years ago left me with a very negative view toward ripstop tape and I am unwilling to give it a second chance because of that.

Space (BASE 283) has indicated that he does not consdier ripstop tape to be a good thing and I am sure his experience is much more recent than mine.

Still, some currently active BASE jumpers are using ripstop tape for repairs and reporting good results so I think it becomes a matter of doing what will give jumpers adequate confidence in their gear.

Based on my experience, I would rather jump a canopy with small holes in it than use ripstop tape and get the holes patched at the factory when the holes are big enough or there are enough holes to make the repairs worthwhile.

Others will feel differently.

Walt

BASE818

Re: [waltappel] ripstop tape

Hey Waltappel: Then you have had shitty ripstop... Coz I jumped proximity 650 jumps with a canopy what was fixed with ripstop in year 2000 ...and If I look those patches now -> they still looks like put yesterday... ...and have fixed my wing suit (V2) as well after hitting the barbwire !

Ripstop is GREAT first aid and even permanent fixing stuff specially if you are road tripping and there is no riggers closer than 500km !

And if you make those patches in proper way: if necessary to both sides and if you cut the corners off (make round or elliptical patches) then it will last FOREVER !!!

Like I said its GOOD STUFF, I carrie always couples roll of that with me !

Do it proper and it works :)

-Tony Vilko- (one of those fucking Finns)

Fuck the Finns!

BASE818

Re: [BASE818] ripstop tape

Hey Guys welcome to 21st century, ripstop works without any problems

-Tony Vilko-

Fuck the Finns!

base283

Re: [maretus] ripstop tape

I reply to you but is for everyone.
Ripstop is only psychological for small stuff. I am a rigger, and I had to pack stuff with big holes in it. Gaffers tape is better than anything for durability and pissing off your rigger. I just repaired a wing suit, a 3inch rip on the trailing edge. Victim said, absolutely no diff in flying.. So, tzhe bottom line is that Gaffers tape is way better to piss off your rigger. (I was a gaffer, My friends are gaffers so STFU)
Oh, By Gaffer I mean a Lighting Tech for video shoots.
If one is going to do a majore repair, in the field. Gaffers tape is the sh##. Duck tape and ripstop is for the birds.
And bring it on if you want to compare getting ripped off on ripstop over gaffers tape. Gaffers tape out performs ripstop in every parameter.
One more tip.
The color of the ripshite. It is very important that if you think the color is important, call for help now at www.ishouldntbebasejumping.com
Take care,
space,
ps :Hey maretus. this is not aimed at you and your pink ripstopp.

maretus

Re: [base283] ripstop tape

base283 wrote: Gaffers tape out performs ripstop in every parameter.
Hey Space,

can you maybe elaborate a bit on those parameters where gaffers tape outperforms ripstop? How would the performance of my field repairs be boosted if I would have used gaffers tape instead of the gay pink ripstop I have all over my canopy?

My bottom line is, use gaffers tape, ripstop, duct tape what ever you feel like. I just personally don't buy that theory that you shouldn't use tape at all because the adhesive will somehow magically destroy your canopy. A phenomenon that nobody has ever seen but still there are people that strongly believe it exists... :)

Markus
HSBC / SBA / FBA
www.basejump.fi / www.basejumper.ch

base283

Re: [maretus] ripstop tape

material strength in all dimensions, warp and weft. adhesiveness, Porosity or permeability which has no count in this minor repair. If you want to spend megamore for a no count repair, I will lick your canopy and kiss it better and give me the money. I do have an awesome industrial Bernina triple throw zigzag sewing machine in my bed room which does a bitchin straight stitch also. What does one want from a repair?
Bottom line is that if one can repair something with RP, It doesnt need repairing at all. Mickey Mouse pflasters/bandaids will do the same job making one feel better on the exit point. The canopy doesnt care.
If we go into rigging physics, check out the total surface area top and bottom and add the permeability factor and a 20cm rip assumiming that it was venting 100%, then ratiometric cfi (cubic feet per inchsquared) would be a great deal less than overall cfi than the entire canopy.
less than 1% most certainly.
I can get ya some numbers if anyone wants. I actually own a porosimeter but it doesnt work so well on f111 because f111 is like cheese cloth permeabilitywise It only counts in seconds not milliseconds.
Take care.
space.

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